Author Topic: How many people has Christianity killed?  (Read 5251 times)

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Offline Samothec

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2011, 01:21:45 AM »
Or take this as an example. According to the Bible, we have free will. But, also according to the Bible, God has predestined everything since before creation. These are entirely mutually exclusive of one another.

If you go the free will route, then other problems arise also. God is seen to "harden the hearts" of people throughout the Bible with whom he has grievance. God is, in these cases, removing their free will. It might raise other questions too, such as "How can God punish humans for acts of free will that are identical to or less destructive than acts of free will by God?".

IF you go the pre-destined route, then God arbitrarily chooses who will be "saved" and who will burn. People do not choose to do evil, they do evil because God has predestined them to do it. They are being punished for God's cruelty. Also, Jesus alleged "sacrifice" becomes completely pointless. There is no path to salvation if God has already chosen his flock.

If a God's description of himself in his biography creates a logical impossibility, what does that say about him?

But you are using logic and reason; many theists refuse to use those tools (except to try and destroy science) so they ignore anything that contains logic or reason. All the atheists I've met understand that such a "logical impossibility" means, of course, that such a being is impossible. But to theists, that just makes god mysterious.    :(
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2011, 08:50:51 AM »

But you are using logic and reason; many theists refuse to use those tools (except to try and destroy science) so they ignore anything that contains logic or reason. All the atheists I've met understand that such a "logical impossibility" means, of course, that such a being is impossible. But to theists, that just makes god mysterious.    :(

Here's where we run into problems: theists are actually fond of science and reason and logic and all of that stuff. If they weren't they would be living like a bunch of primitive sheepherders like God's followers in the Bible. They wouldn't drive cars, use blended fabrics or access the internet. When it comes to things in the real world, they LOVE science as much as anyone. like the www.fixedearth.com assholes who are so against science, yet HAVE A FUCKING WEBSITE! If these people do not want me to consider them hypocrites, then they should be wearing primitive clothing, live in a mud and twig house, and have no electricity, no gas, no insulation, no car, no computer, NOTHING. Every time they turn on a light, or the TV, or check their email, or fly somewhere, they are demonstrating that they are WRONG. Either they should live off of what God gives them (i.e. nothing) or they should shut the hell up.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2011, 08:51:35 PM »
Quote
How many people has Christianity killed?

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2011, 01:08:59 AM »
Quote
How many people has Christianity killed?

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
+1 for the link......hard to fathom
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Offline velkyn

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2011, 11:17:19 AM »
Think about it . If God is all loving then He would not do this, which in turn would mean that some of the men in charge of writing the Bible may have changed it to meet what the powers that be,(men in charge, kings ) needed or wanted at the time. Which may explain way the Bible seems to contradict itself from time to time. I know, a somewhat wild claim, but a thought.
  And your god allowed this because?   All I see is some excuse for why a supposedly omni-max god can’t get it up.  Why not say that all of the bible is garbage written by humans?  The resurrection?  Just a story, no truth and thus no life after death, just a worthless lie made up to get people to accept their fate on earth and to not rebel as slaves.  If this god is as good as you claim, explain this.  And I’m sure you’ll just inore me and repeate your little excuse “I’ll ask god questions when I’m dead”.  You need to ask questions now, Riley when it will do some good, before you waste your life and your resources on a story that isnt’ true.
Quote
Even when you all are saying that the Bible is not the TRUE word of God , you still seem like you make your decisions about Him from what is written in the Bible. I am not saying I am wrong or right here. But still just looking for the truth and isn't that what you are doing or are you educated beyond searching or learning any more? Is it really God that you are mad at or don't believe in , or is it the way that people has taken religion and trashed it to the point of being ridicules that you are truly pissed about? Now before you rip this into threads, give it a second or two and think about it. Just saying

Okay, Riley, how else are we to know this god?  The individual opinions of millions of people who all have made this god in their own image?  It all comes down to being baseless claims by humans. Thre is no uber truth about some god.  We’ve been looking for how many thousands of years and still have *nothing*. 

I am looking for the truth and you are one more ignorant theist for claiming that I would not be just to protect your faith.  And I have found that part of it is that there are no magical supernatural gods as claimed by theists.  No evidence whatsoever and what seems to be only humans who really want to be special snowflakes and give up their responsibility by claiming “god’s will”.   You have retreated to the usual pathetic nonsense that theists try to accuse atheists of, and they all fail because you *don’t* think.  Have you not been reading our responses to come up with such weak garbage?  I am not angry at some imaginary thing. I can be quite angry at ignorant Christians who close their eyes and stick their fingerfs in their ears and who spread lies like you did in your paper. I can be irritated at ignorant Christains who want to claim that atheists just don’t want to know the “Truth”, especially when said theists can’t provide any evidence of it at all, only their baseless claims.   I can be amused at how each theist is sure that their nonsense is true and how they ignorantly attack others who also make the same claism they do.   I am educated and I know that lies from Christians and other theists aren’t true, no matter how much they claim they are. 
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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2011, 11:32:16 AM »
.....which in turn would mean that some of the men in charge of writing the Bible......

There were no men "in charge of writing the bible".  It is merely hand-picked scribblings from ignorant desert men.
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Offline Samothec

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2011, 01:30:57 PM »

But you are using logic and reason; many theists refuse to use those tools (except to try and destroy science) so they ignore anything that contains logic or reason. All the atheists I've met understand that such a "logical impossibility" means, of course, that such a being is impossible. But to theists, that just makes god mysterious.    :(

Here's where we run into problems: theists are actually fond of science and reason and logic and all of that stuff. If they weren't they would be living like a bunch of primitive sheepherders like God's followers in the Bible. They wouldn't drive cars, use blended fabrics or access the internet. When it comes to things in the real world, they LOVE science as much as anyone. like the www.fixedearth.com assholes who are so against science, yet HAVE A FUCKING WEBSITE! If these people do not want me to consider them hypocrites, then they should be wearing primitive clothing, live in a mud and twig house, and have no electricity, no gas, no insulation, no car, no computer, NOTHING. Every time they turn on a light, or the TV, or check their email, or fly somewhere, they are demonstrating that they are WRONG. Either they should live off of what God gives them (i.e. nothing) or they should shut the hell up.

Exactly. As I mention in Re: Ocean-sized universal common ancestor (post #137) I do consider tech-using thesits to be hypocrties. I will grant that Amish/Mennonites who do avoid technology are not hypocrites but they are pretty much the only ones. And yet they are totally blind to that fact. In some ways it is amazing that religion has not been written up in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders as a delusion. But we can hope.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline Samothec

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2011, 01:33:59 PM »
.....which in turn would mean that some of the men in charge of writing the Bible......

There were no men "in charge of writing the bible".  It is merely hand-picked scribblings from ignorant desert men.

Yet they were the wisest men of their day. Sadly that idea is what bible theists cling to - they were the wisest men - but they ignore that we have made a bit of progress since then.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline riley2112

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2011, 02:12:59 PM »
.....which in turn would mean that some of the men in charge of writing the Bible......

There were no men "in charge of writing the bible".  It is merely hand-picked scribblings from ignorant desert men.

Yet they were the wisest men of their day. Sadly that idea is what bible theists cling to - they were the wisest men - but they ignore that we have made a bit of progress since then.
As strange as it may sound, I agree with you about the progress. I just wish that we had some progress with the debates on the subject. It seems to me to be the same old reasons for the same debate.  nonbelieves = no evidence so no God.  believers= our holy book ( insert title) says God exist so he does. Kinda getting boring.
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2011, 03:10:20 PM »
As strange as it may sound, I agree with you about the progress. I just wish that we had some progress with the debates on the subject. It seems to me to be the same old reasons for the same debate.  nonbelieves = no evidence so no God.  believers= our holy book ( insert title) says God exist so he does. Kinda getting boring.

It does get boring.  Really really boring. (and I am so hoping for a new job so I haven't the time to fritter away here).   The idea that so many theists have that their holy book and stories should be considered equally with the evidence that those stories is ridiculous and does make for some rather pointless discussions since they are not interested in learning anything.  They have no problem in ignoring what's being said so they can cling to their beliefs.  But showing those stories to be what they are, myths, is worth it because it might, just might, stop this nonsense from being spread as any kind of "truth".   

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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2011, 03:32:08 PM »

Exactly. As I mention in Re: Ocean-sized universal common ancestor (post #137) I do consider tech-using thesits to be hypocrties. I will grant that Amish/Mennonites who do avoid technology are not hypocrites but they are pretty much the only ones. And yet they are totally blind to that fact. In some ways it is amazing that religion has not been written up in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders as a delusion. But we can hope.

I consider them hypocrites to the greatest degree. How can these idiots actually have a website attacking science? It really just blows my mind. If they want to say that technology is just so damn convenient, well, that's true, and its great, but its due to science. The Bible isn't a blueprint for a plasma TV or an iphone. Spiritual people love all of the things science makes for them, but somehow hates science. GRRR...... this just presses all the wrong buttons for me.  Although the Amish probably have some whacky ideas too, they are one of the only religious groups I can respect, because they actually practice what they preach, and they don't really preach to anyone but their own. While they are certainly "backwards" in many ways, their self sufficiency, hard work and simple life are really quite admirable, even if its all for God. Plus they have bitchin beards. Although, I think it's also fair to point out that the Amish might utilize a telephone or ambulance in case of emergency. What does that say about faith? When it comes to stuff that really matters (like, life and death) even the Amish would rather trust to modern technology than faith. Science beats God again.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2011, 03:35:16 PM »
Although, I think it's also fair to point out that the Amish might utilize a telephone or ambulance in case of emergency. What does that say about faith?

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Offline velkyn

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2011, 04:27:32 PM »
I consider them hypocrites to the greatest degree. How can these idiots actually have a website attacking science? It really just blows my mind. If they want to say that technology is just so damn convenient, well, that's true, and its great, but its due to science. The Bible isn't a blueprint for a plasma TV or an iphone. Spiritual people love all of the things science makes for them, but somehow hates science. GRRR...... this just presses all the wrong buttons for me.  Although the Amish probably have some whacky ideas too, they are one of the only religious groups I can respect, because they actually practice what they preach, and they don't really preach to anyone but their own. While they are certainly "backwards" in many ways, their self sufficiency, hard work and simple life are really quite admirable, even if its all for God. Plus they have bitchin beards. Although, I think it's also fair to point out that the Amish might utilize a telephone or ambulance in case of emergency. What does that say about faith? When it comes to stuff that really matters (like, life and death) even the Amish would rather trust to modern technology than faith. Science beats God again.

the Amish aren't all that.  they use cell phones, and get people to take them places in cars. They use everything but I'm guessing they think they are fooling their god somehow.  My brother arrested some at a beer party in the woods that had boomboxes attached to the batteries that power the lights on their buggies (some are okay with that, some aren't).

They also use modern medicine since they've inbred themselves some nice genetic problems: http://criglernajjar.altervista.org/fromNYT.htm

being insular, they also don't report abuse, and there is one story (I believe it to be true but have not gotten an indisputable source) that they often pull all of the teeth of women who try to complain about it to the outside world.  http://www.amishabuse.com/DanPadden.htm
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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2011, 04:41:52 PM »

the Amish aren't all that.  they use cell phones, and get people to take them places in cars. They use everything but I'm guessing they think they are fooling their god somehow.  My brother arrested some at a beer party in the woods that had boomboxes attached to the batteries that power the lights on their buggies (some are okay with that, some aren't).

They also use modern medicine since they've inbred themselves some nice genetic problems: http://criglernajjar.altervista.org/fromNYT.htm

being insular, they also don't report abuse, and there is one story (I believe it to be true but have not gotten an indisputable source) that they often pull all of the teeth of women who try to complain about it to the outside world.  http://www.amishabuse.com/DanPadden.htm

I wasn't aware of the pulling women's teeth thing, or the extent that they use technology. Thanks for the insight. I am aware of the problems from inbreeding though. This was brought to attention in this area by Ed Gingerich, who killed and disemboweled his wife (in front of their children). He was obviously mad as hell, and if I remember right, he had schizophrenia. He got off pretty light due to mental illness, and ended up killing himself recently. It kind of reminds me of problems in European royalty with similar issues, such as Erzsebet Bathory being an absolute sociopath, ditto for Vlad Dracula. There are probably a lot more well known examples, but I can't think of them at the moment. But the constant inbreeding, keeping it in the family, causes lots of genetic issues.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2011, 05:57:47 PM »
Working on a farm a few years ago, an Amish family was moving kit and caboodle across Pennsylvania when one of the horses pulling the covered wagon threw a shoe.  They pulled into our farm, got a hold of a flat bed tractor trailer and loaded on the whole shebang, along with horse trailers and pickups, and continued on using “English” modern gasoline contraptions. 

   Also, interesting how the “steel-wheel” Mennonites won’t use rubber tractor tires because the comfort allows them to lose interest in god.  Some “black-bumper” Mennonites allow cars as long as the chrome is painted black.  Another interesting thing that many of these groups do, is travel to Mexico for healthcare because of their beliefs that insurance is wrong.  And, a small group of Mennonites, called the 35ers, are more disconnected from current technology than many Amish, never using phones and spending summers going barefoot.

Quote
In 1946 a small group of members left the Groffdale Conference of the Old Order Mennonites in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and formed Reidenbach Mennonite Church (also known as the Reidenbach Old Order Mennonites). A few years earlier, during World War II, conscientious objectors from Amish, Mennonite, and other nonresistant groups were assigned to government-run Civilian Public Service (CPS) camps. However, some members of Groffdale Conference opposed their members participating in any government program. These traditionalists believed that if a church member received a draft notice, he should refuse to participate not only in military combatant and non-combatant services but also in CPS camps. Instead he should accept a prison sentence, just as the early Anabaptists did for their nonresistance. A faction of about 35 Groffdale Conference people, led by Mrs. Rufus (Lydia) Martin, demanded that Bishop Joseph O. Wenger excommunicate those who went to CPS camps instead of going to prison as true non-resistant Christians. The group became known as the "Thirty-Fivers."

http://www.gameo.org/encyclopedia/contents/reidenbach_mennonite_church_lancaster_county_pennsylvania_usa

Going back to the original thread, its interesting that these groups are so opposed to participating in war.
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Offline Samothec

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2011, 12:22:19 AM »
snipped for focus
The Bible isn't a blueprint for a plasma TV or an iphone. Spiritual people love all of the things science makes for them, but somehow hates science. GRRR...... this just presses all the wrong buttons for me.

For me too. I love the "The Bible isn't a blueprint for a plasma TV or an iphone."  LOL

I don't know if this should be presented as a new topic but if biblegod is omniscient etc then he could have told the writers of the bible about how to build all sorts of technological things that we take for granted but which would have seemed magic to the bible writers. Why didn't he? It would have set up proof of his knowledge/omniscience for eons. Really points to it only being written by people of that time.

As to the further comments about the Amish - yeah, I knew a little of that which is why I used the wording: "Amish/Mennonites who do avoid technology". I didn't know about the inbreeding. Sad.

The abuse of their women is very sad but unfortunately not a huge surprise, after all they follow the bible and it advocates many barbaric practices.

I'm trying to figure something out regarding shnozzola's on topic point about Amish/Mennonites being opposed to war. Is it logical or not for them to be opposed to it? It seems in character for them - from what I know about them. But they are a Xian sect which often are quite aggressive. So I'm puzzled.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2011, 02:06:58 AM »
.....which in turn would mean that some of the men in charge of writing the Bible......

There were no men "in charge of writing the bible".  It is merely hand-picked scribblings from ignorant desert men.

Yet they were the wisest men of their day. Sadly that idea is what bible theists cling to - they were the wisest men - but they ignore that we have made a bit of progress since then.
As strange as it may sound, I agree with you about the progress. I just wish that we had some progress with the debates on the subject. It seems to me to be the same old reasons for the same debate.  nonbelieves = no evidence so no God.  believers= our holy book ( insert title) says God exist so he does. Kinda getting boring.

Not to be a smart ass, but there has been progress on this subject. There are a greater percentage of atheists in the world every day. Every day more people come to the realization that all they do have is their ancient book and there is nothing separating it from the various other ancient books across the globe. At one point, not too many centuries ago, people would be killed for even questioning the validity of these ancient books, still happens, but far less.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2011, 02:46:13 AM »
How many people has Christianity killed?

0...zilch...nada

It's like asking how many people Science has killed.

Knock it off.

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Offline Brakeman

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2011, 07:18:07 AM »
How many people has Christianity killed?

0...zilch...nada

It's like asking how many people Science has killed.

Knock it off.

No you knock it off!

Science is the systematic Study of the natural world.  Studying doesn't kill anybody. Anything beyond that is engineering, engineering has killed millions.

Christianity, is the following of Jesus' commands. Jesus commanded that we follow the old testament and the new testament. The following of those commands, such as "don't suffer a witch to live" IS christianity by definition. and thus it has killed many.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2011, 11:20:22 AM »
No you knock it off!

Science is the systematic Study of the natural world.  Studying doesn't kill anybody. Anything beyond that is engineering, engineering has killed millions.

Christianity, is the following of Jesus' commands. Jesus commanded that we follow the old testament and the new testament. The following of those commands, such as "don't suffer a witch to live" IS christianity by definition. and thus it has killed many.

The same mad men who use ideology to move people to kill also use engineering to enable the foot soldiers to kill more efficiently. Christianity can be a powerful force for good. Engineering can be a powerful force for good. Christianity can be used to subdue the masses. Engineering can be used to subdue the masses. Religion is a tool. Like a gun or a compass.

Engineering hasn't killed anybody, neither has religion.   
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Offline velkyn

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2011, 11:45:51 AM »
The same mad men who use ideology to move people to kill also use engineering to enable the foot soldiers to kill more efficiently. Christianity can be a powerful force for good. Engineering can be a powerful force for good. Christianity can be used to subdue the masses. Engineering can be used to subdue the masses. Religion is a tool. Like a gun or a compass.

Engineering hasn't killed anybody, neither has religion.
[/quote]

ah, the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument.  However, religion is rather unlike a gun in that it gives people a reason to kill.  Those other people are "evil" and deserve to be killed.  Would the inquisition, crusades, etc have killed all of those people without religion?  It was the idea behind the action.
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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2011, 12:01:01 PM »
ah, the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument.

Reminds me of this one:

Gods don’t kill people. People with gods kill people.  (David Viaene)
God is an Imaginary Friend for Grown-ups

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2011, 12:36:50 PM »
ah, the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument.  However, religion is rather unlike a gun in that it gives people a reason to kill.  Those other people are "evil" and deserve to be killed.  Would the inquisition, crusades, etc have killed all of those people without religion?  It was the idea behind the action.

The Bible also gives people a reason to love each other and to forgive. Most people just want to be left alone to live their lives. The only way you are going to get them to rally behind your next land grab is to convince them that there is a real threat. Just saying "Hey guys, these people over there are Godless bastards who deserve to die...lets go kill 'em!" ain't gonna work. People need more motivation than that to leave their homes and risk their lives. Hence, propaganda in the absence of a real threat. "These Godless bastards have raided our lands and everywhere they go they rape and pillage. If we don't do something to stop them they will kill us all!"

It has nothing to do with God or Religion. Religion is a tool. Just like Nationalism.  It's just another notch in the ever expanding belt of Us vs. Them. I'm not saying that you should just embrace Christianity or religion. They are potentially dangerous tools. However it is illogical to blame the tool when the problem is the ego-maniacal sociopaths who would wield them for their personal gain.

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Offline gonegolfing

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2011, 01:17:47 PM »
ah, the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument.  However, religion is rather unlike a gun in that it gives people a reason to kill.  Those other people are "evil" and deserve to be killed.  Would the inquisition, crusades, etc have killed all of those people without religion?  It was the idea behind the action.

The Bible also gives people a reason to love each other and to forgive. Most people just want to be left alone to live their lives. The only way you are going to get them to rally behind your next land grab is to convince them that there is a real threat. Just saying "Hey guys, these people over there are Godless bastards who deserve to die...lets go kill 'em!" ain't gonna work. People need more motivation than that to leave their homes and risk their lives. Hence, propaganda in the absence of a real threat. "These Godless bastards have raided our lands and everywhere they go they rape and pillage. If we don't do something to stop them they will kill us all!"

It has nothing to do with God or Religion. Religion is a tool. Just like Nationalism.  It's just another notch in the ever expanding belt of Us vs. Them. I'm not saying that you should just embrace Christianity or religion. They are potentially dangerous tools. However it is illogical to blame the tool when the problem is the ego-maniacal sociopaths who would wield them for their personal gain.

Religions--all of them--end up being in some way shape or form, a poisoned chalice to those who practice them. It's poison causes evrything from the oppressed and subservient mind to the vilest and most dangerous offenders--and all things in between.

Very little good is done in the name of religion and what is done is usually done out of self interest, or with the hope of a promised eternal reward, or for growth of the religion.

Dangerous tool ? No .......Dangerous weapon ? Yes.
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Offline riley2112

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2011, 01:45:54 PM »
Think about it . If God is all loving then He would not do this, which in turn would mean that some of the men in charge of writing the Bible may have changed it to meet what the powers that be,(men in charge, kings ) needed or wanted at the time. Which may explain way the Bible seems to contradict itself from time to time. I know, a somewhat wild claim, but a thought.
Even when you all are saying that the Bible is not the TRUE word of God , you still seem like you make your decisions about Him from what is written in the Bible. I am not saying I am wrong or right here. But still just looking for the truth and isn't that what you are doing or are you educated beyond searching or learning any more? Is it really God that you are mad at or don't believe in , or is it the way that people has taken religion and trashed it to the point of being ridicules that you are truly pissed about? Now before you rip this into threads, give it a second or two and think about it. Just saying

Riley, while I am far from being an expert in the history of the Bible, what I do know about it makes me suspect that you don't have any knowledge of its history. The contents of the Bible were decided upon by a committee. Not all gospels are in the New Testament. The Old Testament is the holy books of the Jews but not all of them are present. And as for "the Bible seems to contradict itself", um, no, it does contradict itself, period. And is inaccurate saying things like a bat is a type of bird.

As for being mad at god or religion, my answer is both. I won't say anything further regarding god because my answer that touched upon those thoughts in the thread Re: Do you want there to be a creator? [#2629] seems to have killed it. As for religion, see my signature.
As for knowing about the history of the Bible. I have the internet just like you so more than likely I have looked at the history of the Bible and that is what makes me believe it was changed to meet the wants of the powers that were at the time and even now may be interpreted in ways that it was never meant to be. Again, just a thought.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2011, 02:03:06 PM »
The Bible also gives people a reason to love each other and to forgive. Most people just want to be left alone to live their lives. The only way you are going to get them to rally behind your next land grab is to convince them that there is a real threat. Just saying "Hey guys, these people over there are Godless bastards who deserve to die...lets go kill 'em!" ain't gonna work. People need more motivation than that to leave their homes and risk their lives. Hence, propaganda in the absence of a real threat. "These Godless bastards have raided our lands and everywhere they go they rape and pillage. If we don't do something to stop them they will kill us all!"
baseless claims.  The crusades were built around teh idea of "hey those guys over there are godless bastards, take back Jerusalem".     

the bible indeed does give people a reason to love each other and forgive.  So?  that doesnt' negate the fact that it gives them a reason to do the exact opposite.

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It has nothing to do with God or Religion. Religion is a tool. Just like Nationalism.  It's just another notch in the ever expanding belt of Us vs. Them. I'm not saying that you should just embrace Christianity or religion. They are potentially dangerous tools. However it is illogical to blame the tool when the problem is the ego-maniacal sociopaths who would wield them for their personal gain.
  Sorry, but it has a lot to do with gods and religions.  They are indeed tools but they are also reasons.  The tool says literally kill those peopel over there because they dont' belive in a certain god and that if you don't, this god will harm *you*.  If those tools didn't say that, you might have a leg to stand on.   Remove that and you remove a problem.  Will people likely find something else, yep, very likely, but *this* nonsense will have been stopped. 
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Offline velkyn

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2011, 02:05:23 PM »
As for knowing about the history of the Bible. I have the internet just like you so more than likely I have looked at the history of the Bible and that is what makes me believe it was changed to meet the wants of the powers that were at the time and even now may be interpreted in ways that it was never meant to be. Again, just a thought.

more than likely?  have you or haven't you? 

If you believe that the bible is some magical word of god, then how is it that your god does nothing to correct this?  Your god supposedly used to have quite a problem wtih people being bad, smiting them etc.  And now he does nothing? 

I know, "I'll ask him when I see him"....
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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2011, 02:19:54 PM »
Quote from: jaybell32
How many people has Christianity killed?

0...zilch...nada

It's like asking how many people Science has killed.

Knock it off.

I actually disagree with this in part, the first part.  Christianity's laws and morals come from the New Testament, and anything that the NT states that goes into harming other people, whether physical or mental, can result in the death of a person, per se.  So, in fact, if going by the laws and morals of the NT which also, if one reads Matthew represents as well the OT, and all that's stated in it, then, one can come to the conclusion that Christianity has killed.

Science on the other hand has no scripture or moral code to it as Christianity does.  Neither does atheism for the theists on the board.

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This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: How many people has Christianity killed?
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2011, 02:54:08 PM »
The crusades were built around teh idea of "hey those guys over there are godless bastards, take back Jerusalem" to secure trade routes and protect commerce.

You left the part in bold out.

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the bible indeed does give people a reason to love each other and forgive.  So?  that doesnt' negate the fact that it gives them a reason to do the exact opposite.

It doesn't negate the fact no. It does highlight something many atheists like to call Christians out for...SPAG.

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Sorry, but it has a lot to do with gods and religions.  They are indeed tools but they are also reasons.  The tool says literally kill those peopel over there because they dont' belive in a certain god and that if you don't, this god will harm *you*.

Right but due to the nature of SPAG and the desire of most people to be left alone, those commandments alone are not enough to rally to war.

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Remove that and you remove a problem.

I'm glad you said that. There aren't too many hellfire and brimstone preachers left in America. At least not in the main stream. Those parts of the Bible are being marginalized right before our eyes.

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Will people likely find something else, yep, very likely, but *this* nonsense will have been stopped.

No need to find anything else. All the old tried and true reasons for war still exist and you can demonize the enemy without calling upon God. Or in the case of Islamic terrorists you can demonize their religion. The main purpose of demonizing the enemy is to make it easier to justify killing or subjugating the enemy. This is why I get sketchy when I hear you guys demonize the Christian God or the people who believe in Him.

On a side note, I still haven't read a good explanation why it would be more preferable to be killed by someone who is without the influence of a god as opposed to someone who thinks their God commands them to kill you.
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.